TIM RYAN: Glad you're with us, everybody. Tim and Pat in the End Zone, SIRIUS NFL Radio. 877-NFL-KICK is the toll-free number. We're with the New England Patriots at training camp as Camp Tour 2007 continues on here at SIRIUS NFL Radio. Let's bring in the Vice President of Player Personnel with the Patriots, Scott Pioli. Patty, NFL Executive of the Year three times in pro football…
PAT KIRWAN: Good man.
TR: He's joining us right now. How's it going, Scott?
SCOTT PIOLI: It's going great, guys. Thanks for having me. I like this setup a little bit better than being out in the heat where you usually setup outside, and I'm sweating on you guys. But this is kind of nice – a little air conditioning. I like it.
PK: It's beautiful.
TR: We got, as you pointed out to us, we got better tech in here than you got in your office.
SP: We have a little bit of overload here. I feel like I'm in a sportsbar with all these different screens going. It's unbelievable.
[Laughter and crosstalk]
PK: First question for me, and this represents a lot of interested Patriot fans, is why the – and I've asked you this before but it bears repeating the question – why the change in philosophy, if there was one, in the aggressiveness to go get Adalius Thomas…and then get a Randy Moss? A lot of people perceived that as a change. I think you have a different answer.
SP: I think that is perception rather than reality. I think if there was something that was different this year it was possibly the timing of the signings. Where in the past, we've probably signed more players a little bit later after there was a flurry. I think there was some trepidation around the league as to with the significant growth in the cap and a lot of cap room. I think a lot of teams were sitting there. So it certainly wasn't a shift in…I mean, you go back to the 2001 season. There's a year where we signed 23 free agents. People seem to forget that before that season, we signed 23 free agents. Went into the season with, I want to say, 17 or 18 of those players that stayed on the roster. We've always been involved in the free agent market. In terms of a player like Adalius Thomas…and again, every season we've gone out into free agency, tried to get players – and we haven't necessarily gotten those players. Maybe this year there was just a few more players that did want to get married to us rather than in the past. [Laughter]
PK: As it turns out, just knowing contracts, it turns out that his signing, which was big news when they did it…
TR: It was a bargain deal!
PK: …and as the end of the money was spent around the league, what a great deal. What a great deal for a great player.
SP: Adalius is a good player and a good person, and we'll see. We're happy he's here; he sure as heck's happy to be here, and hopefully things will work out well with him.
TR: How hard do you dig into the character of these guys and their intelligence? Because every guy we talk to seems wide-eyed, smart, ready to go, ready to pick up on this game mentally, which is a huge part of it. I think Johnny Fox told me six, seven years ago, 'You win with character in this league, not characters.' I know it's important to you guys, but how do you go about it, really trying to drill down into not only the guy's football intelligence, but in terms of his core and what moral base he's coming from, or whatever it may be. How do you tap into that?
SP: It's a lot of research. And I don't think that we're different from other teams. I think every team wants the same kind of players. And sometimes some teams have more or less information than other clubs. We spend a lot of time, and we use a lot of different resources, just above and beyond just our scouting department. Bill [Belichick] and I spend a lot of time with these players before we do anything. And part of it is also the character. It's matching up, having players that that have similar values regarding the game of football that the leadership group here has. And we've said this before publicly: we're not for everybody and everybody's not for us. And that's not to say that we're better, it's just you want to spend time, just like you do in your work life, with people that you have aligned values and interests in. It just makes that whole thing a whole lot easier. And again, I don't think that we're doing things that are very different. Everyone's looking for good people. Every team is looking for good people. We spend a lot of time and a lot of resources on it.
PK: Yep. Next thing: a lot of personnel guys around the world would cringe at the number of over-30 year olds that you signed. But it's a special place. How you practice is different. How you package your offense and defense to provide opportunities in a limited basis for some of these guys to excel for you makes it a little different. So all of a sudden, 33-, 34-, 35-, 38-year olds, guys who played with Timmy [Laughter], are capable of being here.
[Laughter and everyone talking at once.]
SP: We like having guys like that around too, though. We have a lot of respect for the players that are on our roster that are coming from other teams that are older players. Whether it be Chad Brown, Junior Seau…we've had a history – it was Bobby Hamilton at the end, and it was Anthony Pleasant at the end. Those players bring value to a football team. And it's not necessarily always on the field. It's not a physical thing. It's a professionalism, it's a level of guys that know how to prepare, who have been through an NFL season. Here's what we look for in those guys: there are a lot of players that can lead, and there are certain leaders and veteran players that you look for that are selfless leaders. There's guys that are out there…
PK: There's a secret word.
TR: Mmm-hmm.
SP: Because they're not afraid of teaching. The veteran players that we bring around here…Rodney Harrison is not afraid of teaching a player how to be a pro, and teaching the player things that…it might be a player that some day may take his job. And that gives you insight into the individual. When you have people like that around, it's a pretty special thing because it tells you something about them. It teaches the younger players. Not only are they learning the football aspect, but I think they learn this human element of this game that's really important – that if you want to be a part of this, we're all sacrificing something. And we've got players that do that.
PK: I've talked to a number of GMs. Here's a canned answer from a lot of guys: 'Uh, he doesn't have any gas left in his tank.' Or, 'When those guys get hurt they never recover.' Those are such generic statements. You've got guys here that are older that have had serious injuries that have come back. I think there's a medical competitive edge to guys that understand 32 today is not what a 32-year old was five years ago, eight years ago.
SP: And there are other elements, like…I'll tell you a quick story here. One of the greatest lessons I learned in my job is…and I think it's important to always understand that there's things that we can learn from players and learn from people. People in my position, and coaches, need to pay attention to the things around you. Anthony Pleasant. When Anthony Pleasant came here…I was with Anthony in Cleveland, Baltimore, the Jets and here. We brought Anthony here during a time when he knew was the twilight of his career. He knew it was the end. Anthony Pleasant was a part of two championships here, and he also…he was in training camp, after practice, every single day, with the young guys that we drafted, including Ty Warren, who was coming in – he knew – to take his job and was probably going to be, or potentially going to be, a guy that sent him home at the end of August. And Anthony played, at the end of practice every day – Pat, you were around him…
PK: Yep.
SP: …a special guy. And again, it was one of those learning moments for me where I said, 'Wow. There are leaders, but then there are special leaders.' Anthony Pleasant was a special leader – where you could find a guy who was actually going to work with someone that he knows is eventually going to take his job. And again, I think it also instills a camaraderie and a special understanding to the younger players. Because the younger player is smart enough to figure it out, thinking, 'Wow. This guy's pretty special. He's teaching me how to take his job.' And it's been a part of what's gone on here – why we're not afraid of older players that are the right kind of older players.
TR: That's why it's team.
SP: Exactly right.
TR: That's what it comes down to. They're benefiting the team at their own cost.
SP: Right. And that's not coachspeak, 'team.' That's not…that is the true…
PK: We watched practice today. We watched Tedy Bruschi coaching Adalius Thomas.
SP: Mmm-hmm.
PK: Adalius was working a lot at the inside position in this particular practice, and in classic Belichick style – versatility, understanding your position by playing the one next to you –but Tedy was working with him between each play on his drops and everything else. The communication was impressive.
SP: Right. And Tedy and Mike Vrabel and Junior, they're working with Oscar Lua, who's a rookie late-round draft pick. But there's a kid…
TR: USC guy.
SP: [Laughter] But they're working with the younger players, and there's something real about that.
TR: He's what we saw: Rodney Harrison going against Heath Evans out there, and they were doing pass-protection stuff. When you guys were all there…they were over by themselves on the other field…
PK: [Inaudible]
TR: …and it's at the end of practice, and you could see: Heath would get in his stance and then Rodney would blitz him. And they would work, and they would work, and then they'd start talking. I mean, those are the guys that…you may get to one-on-ones, and they're going to go against each other and one's showing the other how to beat me!
SP: That's exactly right. And that's why at the end of the day things like that really let us…it's really all about the players. With all the other stuff you hear about who…it's about the players. And when you have players like that doing things like that, in a culture like that, it makes the job easier sometimes.
PK: Scott, I get asked every day, and I want you to answer this, a lot of guys think that as the last draft pick's signed, you kind of chill for a while.
SP: [Laughter]
PK: We're all going to laugh, but they always say, 'Now, is that when the guy gets his time off?' Would you just, in a capsule, the five most important things you have coming up in the month of August. Because a lot of guys think you're going to…
SP: Well, I know the scouting staff was wishing that Brandon [Meriweather] took more time to get in. Because as soon as I got done, that's when I was back in the scouting meetings that we were having. We bring all of our scouts in here and they're here for nine days. We're going through meetings, we're going back through the grading scale, we're talking about the players on our roster, we're watching film together, or tape together, there's a player that's not here – there's a lot to be worked on. There's a lot of things going on.
PK: So before they go out to scout they'd better know this football team.
SP: Oh, absolutely. Because how could they recommend to Bill and myself – or say what a player could do or how he could compete – if they don't know our own staff? So we're working with the scouts, we're working on the salary. Our setup here is a little unique where Bill and I do a lot of different things and wear a lot of different hats. So [laughing] I wish that was the case. But then I'm meeting with the coaches… There's a lot.
PK: How many phone calls a day would Scott Pioli get from other clubs, kind of fishing around – where you're at, what you're thinking about? What's the interaction business-wise between teams?
SP: There's not as many calls right now at this moment. It happens right before camp starts – you hear from a number of different teams who are really the good teams in terms of they're doing a good job of knowing where they're heavy on the roster and where they're light on the roster, or where they think they are. They start making those calls early. I've probably talked to about eight or nine teams. Not about anything specific, but just 'Hey, if you end up heavy at this position, we'd like to talk about certain players.' And a lot of that starts happening more once the games start, because unfortunately as camp goes on, what may have been a heavy part of your roster, through injuries or other reasons, is a lighter part of your roster. So, it's an ever-evolving thing. But I'd probably say there were eight or nine teams that I've heard from. And it's usually the same likely suspects, because there are people that are just good teams taking care of their business.
TR: Doing business the right way. Scott Pioli on the program with us. V.P. of Player Personnel with the New England Patriots. Scott, talk about some of the young guys that maybe flash in here early on, whether they're draft picks, free agents, new additions to the football team. Maybe some young guys that nobody's talking about, no one has any expectation for, that are raising some eyebrows out at practice.
SP: I think it's a little early for that, because right now I think their heads are swimming just in terms from a learning standpoint. They're just still trying to find out where the practice field is, let alone do a great job on it. You know, it's so early for them because what they've done is a lot of classroom learning. Some of these guys, like I said, there will be a little bit of time before we can see what they can do physically. Because some of them, they're still learning when to line up on the field, and [laughing] find out when they're supposed to be on the field, before they can start doing things.
PK: Bill Belichick – we asked him a question [and] I thought his answer was very intriguing. With all the packaging you do on defense with all these great players – and a lot of them in their 30s – come the 53-man roster decisions, the challenge of having enough young legs for special teams…
SP: Mmm-hmm.
PK: …is going to have to factor. Somewhere along the line we're going to have to have a very sobering meeting…
SP: Right.
PK: …about this guy's eight plays per game versus this other guy's special team contribution.
SP: Right. This guy's eight plays per game that can help us on offense or defense versus this other guy's 20 plays per game…
PK: Guaranteed 20 plays.
SP: …on special teams. Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic, and I'm sure Bill brought it up because in the past couple years we've had more veteran players and those discussions come up. There's that whole 'we're not just trying to win a bunch of games in one season.' There are other players we want to develop. So there's usually this rub here. Now, sometimes those things take care of themselves; other times they don't. But there's been a couple years now with some really tough decisions. This is going to be another year, at some point in time. That's why people say they think they have figured out what our roster's going to be, and I'm glad they do because we certainly don't. There's a lot of really important competition. Just for instance, sometimes outsiders don't understand that the fourth tight end isn't just competing with the third tight end, he's competing with the fullback, he's competing with the fifth safety, or he's competing with the ninth linebacker because they play the same positions on special teams. So they're not just competing against players right there at their own spot. When you're talking about those roster spots 35 through 53, you're talking about special team spots as well. So it's not just that challenge between that group of tight ends or the running backs or the back-up running back.
PK: Does anything make a personnel man like yourself madder than cutting a young guy and then he's an All-Pro for someone else?
[Laughter]
SP: That's never happened to any of us. [Laughter]
PK: And you know what happens? The personnel guy loves to go to the coach and say, 'I told you.'
[Laughter]
TR: Scott, last thing for me – break down your quarterback situation behind Tom Brady. Matt Cassel. What's going on with Vinny Testaverde? What's going on with the QBs?
SP: With Vinny, nothing right now. Vinny was here during the minicamps. He finished the season with us, so by league rules he was allowed to come in and be a part of the offseason program and be around. No one's made a decision on either side as to what we might do there. Matt Cassel's in camp and Matt Gutierrez is in camp – a rookie free agent that we signed who had originally started his career at Michigan and finished up up at Idaho. So that's really where we're at right now. I think Tommy's penciled in as the starter.
PK: We observed Matt Cassel doing a lot of holding today.
SP: Mmm-hmm.
PK: And that would make him…
SP: An offensive lineman.
[Laughter and crosstalk]
PK: Talk about the shiny ball for a second, because there's a quarterback…what have they done…I think Timmy knows the answer and I'd like to hear: what have they done to make sure that there's no 'Tony Romo ball' being snapped back?
SP: Oh…I hear there's been changes but I'm not…
TR: Well there's a kicking ball specialist…
SP: Right.
TR: …who rubs them down. Yeah, he's going to rub them down, get them a little tacky, and rub that, I guess, 45 minutes before every game. They can send in a couple of representatives to rub those balls down.
SP: Do they have a title, those people?
TR: Kicking Ball Specialist.
PK: There'll be a college degree in that soon, too. [Laughter]
TR: A little elbow grease gets the job done.
PK: I keep asking the same question, I never get an answer: where one company makes the balls, why are they spraying the stuff on the balls they send you guys?!
TR: Here's the deal: they will not be sending a new ball in with that situation. They're going to have 12 kicking balls, and they're going to use them…they'll number them 1 through 12. And then as the game goes on, it's Kicking Ball 1, Kicking Ball 2, Kicking Ball 1, Kicking Ball 2, Kicking Ball 1, Kicking Ball 2. And the only way they'll pull out one of those balls and go to three or four is if something happens to it – hits a goal post, goes out of the net or something like that.
SP: Pat, this guy here, with his free time I can see what he does. This is a guy who doesn't…you don't golf, do you?
PK: Oh, he's a great golfer.
SP: [Laughter] Oh, is he? I was going to say, it sounds like you have all this other information about the league and what we're doing. It's amazing.
[Laughter and crosstalk]
TR: Scott, great stuff. Thanks for joining us. We appreciate it. Have a great year.
SP: Thanks guys. I appreciate it.
PK: You've done a nice job building it. The expectations are high. Go out and enjoy it. You'll do it one game at a time. Your players will; your fans will not.
SP: Thanks Pat.
TR: Great stuff with Scott Pioli, V.P. of Player Personnel with the New England Patriots.
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